Brianna Madia’s journey as a vagabond lifestyle influencer was extraordinary. It was her, her van, her dogs and, for a time, her husband. And according to her it was really good. Until it wasn’t. And then, it got really scary. Brianna takes us behind the curtain of the IG influencer life - and then we go 100 levels deeper. While the world was fixed on her very attractive-appearing life, she was living with a slow, gnawing truth that was killing her. When she came clean, the geyser of vitriol was horrific. The extreme shaming she received after admitting that she made some, admittedly, desperate life choices - was topped only by the brutality she inflicted on herself. A brutality that had her considering some irrevocable actions. Brianna is able to talk about some big truths and hard things - and yet it never feels like trauma porn. There’s no voyeuristic charge to her story, so you’re left being able to see where we’ve all made choices we wouldn’t want to repeat - and where we go from there. Brianna’s IG: https://www.instagram.com/briannamadia/ Brianna’s site: https://www.briannamadia.com/ Her book, Nowhere For Very Long: https://www.briannamadia.com/nowhereforverylong Episode link: https://www.tmstpod.com/episodes/52-brianna-madia-on-surviving-the-lie-that-was-killing-her Spotify playlist for this episode: Tell Me Something True is a 100% independent podcast. There are no corporations or advertisers backing this community. We are 100% funded by the TMST community. Support TMST today so you can hear the uncut interviews, attend private events with Laura and help keep TMST ad-free: https://tmst.supercast.com/
TMST Brianna Madia final
[00:00:05] Laura McKowen: Hey, it's Laura. Welcome to TMS T so do you know this quote truth without love is brutality and love without truth is hypocrisy it's by Warby an American theologian and today's guest has felt the brutality of truth without love. She's lived through the reality that even when you have a lie, that feels so big.
[00:00:32] You think there's no way you could survive telling the truth. You can. Brianna media blew up on Instagram as a vaon lifestyle influencer. It was her, her van, her dogs, and for a time, her husband. And according to her, it was really good until it wasn't. And then it got really scary in her book, New York times, best seller, by the way, [00:01:00] nowhere for very long.
[00:01:01] And in our conversation, Brianna takes us behind the curtain of an Instagram lifestyle influencer while the world was fixed on her very attractive appearing life. She was living. With a slow knowing truth, that was literally killing her. And when she came clean on Instagram, the Geer of vitriol was horrific.
[00:01:25] The extreme shaming she received after admitting that she made some admittedly desperate life choices was topped only by the brutality. She inflicted on herself, a brutality that had her considering some irrevocable actions. Brianna is able to talk about some big truths and hard things. And yet it never feels like trauma porn.
[00:01:48] There's no voyeuristic charge to her story. So you're left being able to see where we've all made choices. We wouldn't wanna repeat and where we could go from there. [00:02:00] She's really sharp. And I loved her book and I'm excited to have her on the show. Here's Brianna.
[00:02:17] Well, it's so good to have you on it's. Uh, yeah, I read the book and I just have to say like, you are a really good writer. It's not easy to write a book. It's not easy to tell, to tell your story and, and to, to have the language be so beautiful is, is really nice as a reader. Thank
[00:02:35] Brianna Madia: you so much. That means the world, because that was my biggest, one of my bigger concerns.
[00:02:43] I knew a lot of people were maybe expecting it to be, um, yeah, more like my Instagram. Posts in that. And I, and I do feel like I leaned a little bit on the concept of sort of like shorter stories, um, and trying to like weave those together. I mean, that [00:03:00] was the hardest part is like, where do things go?
[00:03:03] Mm-hmm um, in terms of making this a cohesive storyline. And I was so in my head the whole time, because of social media, because it felt like there was this preconceived. and because of the way that my brain works, it was almost like I assumed people were already disappointed. yeah. Horrible. I am. I beat the hell outta myself up here.
[00:03:30] Yeah. Um, and so I was like, I figured some people were expecting like this book to just be adventures and bright, sunny desert, happy van things. Mm-hmm and I think this book ended up. Kind of, I started out thinking it was gonna be that too, because when I signed on to write it that's really what my life was.
[00:03:57] Right. It, I really was [00:04:00] stupidly happy, just floating around in the desert and look at my, I mean, not perfect, but look at my, you know, this life that I wanted really came to fruition and I was in an amazing place with my now ex-husband mm-hmm and, you know, My dogs were well and things hadn't, you know, totally become the chaos of social media that it is now.
[00:04:23] Yeah. And I was writing and writing and the entire time I was like, well, how am I gonna end this? How am I gonna, like, where is this going? Because it's not an Instagram caption. It has to keep going. And then, yeah, my dogs. Accident happened. And I stopped writing for over a year and then I got divorced and my entire life blew up.
[00:04:50] And in the course of the last year, 2020, um, like the last year of me actually writing this book, I was writing about getting [00:05:00] divorced while actively getting divorced.
[00:05:03] Laura McKowen: Man. I don't know how you did that.
[00:05:06] Brianna Madia: I don't either. I think I left my body
[00:05:09] Laura McKowen: you had to live through it and, and you could feel how painful a lot of that was.
[00:05:15] And so much of it happened like at the end, you know, there's like a lot condensed into that, that last part, um, with the divorce and the, the accident and all that, sometimes
[00:05:29] Brianna Madia: I think. Some this idea that I, I think of often is like being a writer. Sometimes I think there is an inherent level of disassociation that kind of needs to be present because you have to hover above yourself sometimes to really kind of mm-hmm, see what's going on and, and see the full story.
[00:05:54] So you have to leave. your body and yeah, a [00:06:00] lot of the end of my book, the divorce, I mean, that was devastating. So a
[00:06:07] Laura McKowen: big theme in, in the book is honesty, honesty with yourself, honesty with others, the courage that that actually takes. And you, your writing is very honest. You can feel it. What did it take for you to tell this story, honestly, to not.
[00:06:26] Because you had some shit that didn't make you look so good and you knew it. So what did it take for you to do that?
[00:06:33] Brianna Madia: I just honestly thought, fuck it. I mean, as callous as that sounds, I. Was like, what do I have to lose? Like, it sounds so grim, but I think after the entire rug is ripped out from under you, you are just like, you lose you [00:07:00] no longer white knuckle grip, this concept that you're in control or that everything you do is, you know, so.
[00:07:11] Not important to the world, but I, I guess I just, I felt like why not? You
[00:07:17] Laura McKowen: also had the experience of keeping a secret when, with the accident, like you had this and it happened in a way that was like out of control and it feels like it just, it got away from you in this, like this way before you had, before you could reel it back in.
[00:07:39] Had the experience of not being honest and feeling like this self hatred, because of it, that was all about truth and lies and secrets and how destructive they are. Oh, it kill it.
[00:07:53] Brianna Madia: Almost killed me. I mean it, and it, and it sounds sometimes I still feel like [00:08:00] God people really go through a lot of stuff. And it's just so funny, funny, but you know, Which is an accident with my dog.
[00:08:09] It's just the most like bizarre sort of story. And it's amazing in a lot of ways. And it's horrifying in a lot of ways. And I just hiding, I, I found that hiding anything, just, it almost killed me and I, I truly mm-hmm. when I came out. With the truth I did. So because I was genuinely on the phone with suicide hotlines and I had lost.
[00:08:42] Yeah. The only other person who carried that,
[00:08:47] Laura McKowen: will you say just like that, the, the sort of. High level story of what happened. Yes. So people who don't, haven't read at your
[00:08:54] Brianna Madia: time know. So, um, my ex-husband and I, we used to it's called redneck running your dog, [00:09:00] um, where you just kind of let them run as you're driving along.
[00:09:04] And we were going, it was something we did all the time. We were going too fast. Um, Dagwood went under the tire and sustained horrible injuries and. Posted about it on Instagram. And my mom started to go fund me in sort of
[00:09:24] this
[00:09:24] Laura McKowen: fever dream of being in the hospital. You posted, cuz that
[00:09:27] Brianna Madia: was the thing you needed to do.
[00:09:28] And social media was my coping mechanism and I wanted so badly to believe that it wasn't us. That like there's that? I mean you would
[00:09:40] Laura McKowen: something else. There was some other reason why this was happening.
[00:09:43] Brianna Madia: And I, I mean, that was the only way that I knew how to start the chapter about his accident was just saying, like, I fully created a man who did this.
[00:09:54] I, I mm-hmm, designed what he looked like, what his [00:10:00] car looked like. And it was just, I started lying to myself and that makes it quite easy to hide the truth from other people. And I felt. Sick and horrible every day for years. And I will, I will always carry some of that with me. It'll be four years in October since he went under the tire.
[00:10:27] And, um, You know, it just, it felt like, again, if honesty is safety, I was so unsafe. I was in fight or flight. And when people would ask even the most minor question, I mean, still to this day, especially since the book has come out, there's people who are, were unfamiliar with my social media and they, or people who kind of stumble upon my page or not.
[00:10:53] It's just kind of an old photo of Dagwood with his injuries and. they'll right. What does any, [00:11:00] like, does anyone know what happened? Oh, I die inside. Mm-hmm I just, I, I mm-hmm I just feel this. Defensiveness this backed into a corner because I still would give anything for what really happened to not be the truth.
[00:11:19] You know, when I, when I came out with the truth, I had a friend, you know, and obviously where else was I gonna do this Instagram? It's where the whole thing went down.
[00:11:28] Laura McKowen: Well, the lie was. Yes, exactly. And so you gotta like, that's where you're gonna go with the truth.
[00:11:34] Brianna Madia: Right? And so I, I, I, I had, I wrote it and I, I posted it and I felt like this immediate sense of even if there is such incredible backlash, even if people say you better give me every dime back mm-hmm
[00:11:59] I, [00:12:00] even if I had to disappear from the internet, I was totally okay with that because yeah, you were free killing myself. Mm-hmm I was dying. And so the options were very clear to me and I handed my phone to my friend and she took it from me for like a full 48 hours and she just kept. Coming in cuz I was staying with her immediately post divorce.
[00:12:25] Apparently I'm a masochist. I decided to post it a month after I moved out and left my husband.
[00:12:33] Laura McKowen: Well, if you're in , if you're in a period of clearing, yes, let's just
[00:12:37] Brianna Madia: do it. Exactly. Um, but she would pop into my room and, and read some really supportive comment and obviously. Ones that were horrible and people have a right to their opinion.
[00:12:51] They have a right to be upset, but the way that people spoke to me, I mean, [00:13:00] the, the book, I, I think I said four, five sentences, just repeating some of the things that have been said to me, I could write an entire. Book of just copying and pasting horrific, horrific things that people have said, but there were thousands and thousands of comments of people saying I kind of suspected that's what happened.
[00:13:25] I would've donated anyway. I don't care. I wanted to save a dog. I saved a dog. I watched that dog run around in the desert every day.
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[00:15:22] Laura McKowen: This is the part that got me the most in the, in the telling of this story is you said, and this is the, the sort of meta theme of what I've learned about honesty is you. You are doing it in a way you were tell, hold it uphold the slide, cuz you actually thought your dog would die if you didn't. And there's more to there's there's details around that.
[00:15:45] But I get that primal fear. It's like, I'm gonna die and the dog's gonna die. I there's no choice. There's literally no choice. That's how it feels. Okay. And what you found out is it wouldn't have people, people not only would have [00:16:00] supported you, but maybe even supported you more and. That's been my experience of the truth that it ultimately is life affirming and expansive.
[00:16:10] Yes. But it's really it. You, I don't think you could have done any different because you didn't. So let's like, whatever regret you might have in there still let's just say it went the way it did because it went the way it did and it couldn't have gone differently because it didn't. And. The secret was gonna kill you.
[00:16:32] The lie was gonna kill you. And that's my experience. Also it lies will kill you and shrink you and annihilate you and telling the truth is ultimately always more life affirming. Yeah, because it puts the world in order.
[00:16:45] Brianna Madia: Yeah. and then God do the good people come out of the woodwork. Yeah. Talk about, I mean, and that was, that was actually one of the hardest parts for me was then in the aftermath, this very small subset of [00:17:00] people who to this day, I mean, a random company will post a photo of one of my dogs and just, you know, cuz he's got a new collar that, or that, what.
[00:17:12] So many people are very quick to rush and say, well, this girl hit her. Don't I'll ne I'll never be able to live it down, but there's, there's so many people, so many more people who just, I mean, said so many things like, like used, just said before, like, wow, I feel, I feel for you so much more now, because that is it's one thing to have.
[00:17:42] Something you love so much injured and on the brink of death. And to know that that is your fault is, I mean, that was like, yes, Dagwoods accident. And his recovery was really difficult, [00:18:00] but that weight was exponential on top of that. And I think the fact that I carried it alone for so long, And then when I came out with it and, and people were just overall so supportive, I mean, I think there was 8,000 individual donations and six people asked for their money back and that is their right.
[00:18:25] Publish it, Venmo them and said, thank you so much because the middle of the pandemic, 15 bucks is a lot of to, to people. Yeah. And they have every right to ask for that back if they feel like they were duped or, but ultimately. The truth made me feel even closer to, to the people who had helped to begin with, because I don't think they realized how much they were helping me at the same time as they helped my dog.
[00:18:57] But then this was like a whole nother [00:19:00] step. Other step of the trauma. Of then saying, like, not only did I give you 15 bucks, two and a half years ago, but now I'm, I'm telling you that it's okay. Mm-hmm and we give you, and you're not bad. And again, that kind of really hit that trigger point for me too, that like you are bad.
[00:19:22] Laura McKowen: Yeah, right. Cuz it's the thing that you wanted to be was good. Yes. Yeah. You you're, you have been given as we all are. We are given exactly the lesson that we need that we need. And you, you got a bunch of big ones, like all, all in that one package, the, the core of that is, is all of the, the, the center. I sort of picture like all these layers in this story.
[00:19:47] There's the dog. There's your ex there's. People there's Instagram, there's your own voice. And then there's this shame like right at the center is this
[00:19:59] Brianna Madia: [00:20:00] hot,
[00:20:01] Laura McKowen: like festering ball of shame. Right, right. And, and the lie, it can't breathe. It can't breathe in there. Um, I work with people being in recovery. I work with people in recovery too.
[00:20:13] And, and like, this is what they deal with. Like, if I tell the truth, I will be annihilated. I'll like, I will vaporize, I will want to die because everyone will hate me, you know? Yeah. But the the it's it never goes that way. No, never, ever, ever goes that way. And I'm saying that for anyone who's listening, who thinks that they're keep secrets are keeping them safe.
[00:20:40] You know, they just, they, they don't, they kill and I'm at, you know, sobriety for me now is about the truth, telling the truth. As best as I can today. Cause if I don't, I have a visceral body reaction to, and feeling like it's gonna make me sick, cuz it will. Yep. So I think [00:21:00] that that was, I think the most beautiful lesson that I don't wanna say lesson, cuz it sounds all wrapped up and hyperbolic and that's not at all with this.
[00:21:08] Brianna Madia: Not want this to be like a self-help book. It's. It's very not that's like for self-help
[00:21:14] Laura McKowen: book. No, no, it's not a self-help book at all it, but I always find memoirs to be more self-help than self-help. Right. Yeah. So it's, um, the, the thing that I thought was so beautiful, uh, was that confrontation you had with the truth and that it ultimately was life-affirming.
[00:21:36] Brianna Madia: I mean, and it's interesting that you say that kind of at the core of my story is shame. And I think that, that unfortunately, I mean, that's something I'll be battling forever, you know, just feeling like there's something wrong with me. [00:22:00] There's something inherently wrong with me and writing this book and, and being able to hear how much people have connected to that aspect in particular has made me feel like maybe there's not something wrong with me.
[00:22:20] Um, because I would never tell someone else that there was something wrong with them. Right. I would never answer an email from someone saying, I have never known how to put into words, what it has felt like with my relationship with, you know, my parent, I would never write back. Well, that's probably cuz you weren't good enough.
[00:22:45] right. It's probably cuz you were, you know, And, and so the fact that so many people are, are in the same boat is, is just, there's nothing wrong with us, you know? And, and a lot [00:23:00] of ways, another really humbling thing was man, when you go through your own divorce and, and I said this in, in my attempts to reconnect with my father.
[00:23:13] And again, because I'm not. Afraid to be honest. Um, the book has done likely irreparable damage, ah, to that. We,
[00:23:24] Laura McKowen: we should talk
[00:23:25] Brianna Madia: about that. yeah. Um, that was worst case scenario and I had to accept that in writing my truth mm-hmm um, that other people were not going to be able to come to terms with the truth.
[00:23:43] Laura McKowen: August and burs says that truth is expensive. Yes, it's expensive.
[00:23:48] Brianna Madia: Yeah.
[00:23:48] Laura McKowen: And it's the only way through. To set the world in order. And what I mean by that is the, your internal, [00:24:00] spiritual world in order. And you know, there's discernment, of course there's kindness. There's all these things that go into it. We don't just, you know, I hear a lot of people just saying, well, that was my truth.
[00:24:13] And it's like, no truth without kindness is what is it? Truth without kindness is just brutality. Yeah. What, what is next? Like what do you hope for?
[00:24:21] Brianna Madia: Um, I am very much loving. Being able to go on this book tour. And I'm so grateful that I can hug people.
[00:24:31] Laura McKowen: Are you doing anything in
[00:24:33] Brianna Madia: Boston? Yeah. Are you? Yeah.
[00:24:36] Yeah. New York and Boston. And I, I might go back and do something at the university of Rhode Island. Cause that's where I went to school. Right.
[00:24:44] Laura McKowen: Well, I'm in Boston, so I will, I would love to come out if you want, if you need someone to do the event with you, I'd be happy to do
[00:24:51] Brianna Madia: it. I would love that. I would absolutely love that.
[00:24:54] I have loved this conversation. It was
[00:24:56] Laura McKowen: really good to talk to you. I had a lot of that's great. I loved it. [00:25:00] It's um, I really, really did love your book. As soon as I started reading it, I reached out and, um, I hope it travels far and I can't see to wait to see what else you do.
[00:25:10] Brianna Madia: Thank you so much.
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